Bomb 4 - German

[Clavius]

(original post: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:09 am)

Just so we know what we are talking about...

[lunadude]

(original post: 22 Nov 2007 02:29 am)

[Model Man]

(original post: 22 Nov 2007 02:37 am)

Dunno why, but I always thought those were Germany's stripes on the command module -even though i know they are not in 'the club'...

[lunadude]

(original post: 22 Nov 2007 02:41 am)

Hmm, now that I'm seeing the flag markings, you may be right. The ID was from another forum post. Re-read it and need to correct the nomenclature.

Thanks for pointing this out.

(fixed it, topic and images changed)

[Model Man]

(original post: 22 Nov 2007 02:50 am)

I know it looks German, but it it can't be. Even today Deutcheland is not a nuclear power. But you are seeing 3(4?) of 5 of the original five powers on screen, the fifth being Britain.

[lunadude]

(original post: 22 Nov 2007 03:06 am)

I love these two. Apart from being freakin huge, they show the building process, and some scale reference.


Larger image located at: www.2001-3d-archive.info/images/reference/ref_b04_08.jpg


Larger image located at: www.2001-3d-archive.info/images/reference/ref_b04_09.jpg

I don't remember where I got these, but I've had them for about 4 years.

[Steven Pietrobon]

(original post: 22 Nov 2007 05:07 am)

Clavius, thanks very much for posting those model photos. They are wonderful!

Sent to me from someone selling reproductions of these photos on eBay. Click on the photos to get full resolution photos. These are much higher resolution than the photos above, but are taken at an angle. Perhaps someone can orthographically correct them.

The German Bomb was originally in scene B1d (the fourth to be shown). It ended up as the third to be shown. The drawing has the arrows for the dimensions, but unfortunately no lengths are given.



Scene from DVD.

[Model Man]

(original post: 26 Nov 2007 03:33 pm)

Does anyone have any ideas on the Germany/US notion?

The political state in the movie (as followed up by 2010) would indicate that it can't be a german nuke, even though that flag very much looks so. Germany in the '60's was very much a potential flashpoint between US/USSR with no sign of independence from either. Thus no reason for SK or ACC to make it an 'independent' state. And of course even today in our real world germany is not a nuclear power.

But that really does look like a german flag to me. Are there any other flags that have the horizontal tri-color motif? Also, if it is a US bomb (4), then the octagonal design form ties directly with the US bomb (1). Of course, if germany became a US protectorate in the film's world, then the octagon makes sense for germany to adopt -as compared to the shots of the russian nuke which is totally bizarre.

And of course, the US bomb, though octagonal, does not look like a 'true' octagon, but flattened. Considering that Trumbull has said that any time when they could move a still image across the screen rather than shoot the model, they did. With this in mind,: 1. a still image will distort in ways in which it wouldn't had they shot it 'for real', and 2: there is clearly no satellite that was shot moving in frame, and thus they all have no parallax. They are all stills animated against a background -with the possible exception of the chinese satellite due to the complex motion involved in the shot. I will have to watch that one a few more times to be sure.

Additionally, almost no shots of the Aries or Moonbus were shot live, they are mostly stills moving against the BG. An illusion which worked very well forty years ago, but once you notice it nowadays, it's too obvious.

There was one other point that has slipped my mind, but will post it when it comes back to me.

[Steven Pietrobon]

(original post: 27 Nov 2007 12:01 am)

From the early script. In scene

B1d
GERMAN BOMB

Bomb 4 clearly shows the German flag and the German airforce cross. No matter how illogical, Germany had nukes in 2001! Also, all the major space powers had signed the Outer Space Treaty in 1967, which prohibits nuclear weapons being deployed in space (in orbit or other celestial bodies), although you can still send nukes through space. Thus, the prediction of nuclear bombs in orbit was false when the film came out in 1968. Kubrick could have changed them to another deadly weapon, e.g., laser, maser, x-ray, death ray, or whatever takes your fancy.

[Model Man]

(original post: 27 Nov 2007 04:47 am)

Cool! I wanted to make sure this wasn't changed from 'US Bomb #4' to 'German' on my half-witted say so. I can now change my WIP to simply 'US Bomb'!

I just read that there are 27 nuclear powers in the film. That's a far more dangerous world than I had ever guessed at. For many, many years, I thought these were just various satellites in orbit demonstrating how advanced humanity had become since first employing 'the stick'.

Knowing them as nuclear weapons gave me a whole new interpretation. But like SK said, if you understand the film the first time you see it, you missed the point (paraphrased). At well over 100 times seeing it, I still gain new insights -which is the utter beauty of the film!

[LeeStringer]

(original post: 29 Nov 2007 02:56 am)

Here's a scan of the German bomb picture


www.flickr.com/photos/lee_stringer/2073435288/sizes/l/

Do note that these just link to the 'large' version, you can click on the page to goto the 'original'

Lunadude, any idea where you found those German bomb pics under construct? Are there more of any of the other miniatures?

[McTodd]

(original post: 29 Nov 2007 01:04 pm)

Apr 25, 2008 21:33:51 GMT -6 Model Man said:

Does anyone have any ideas on the Germany/US notion?

The political state in the movie (as followed up by 2010) would indicate that it can't be a german nuke, even though that flag very much looks so. Germany in the '60's was very much a potential flashpoint between US/USSR with no sign of independence from either. Thus no reason for SK or ACC to make it an 'independent' state. And of course even today in our real world germany is not a nuclear power.

I don't see anyting illogical about it being German. True, Germany in the 1960s (and today) has no nuclear weapons, but Kubrick et al were speculating on a world 33 years away. We don't know in what detail they imagined their future (now our past) world. Did they wonder if West Germany (or even more so a unified Germany) in 2001 might have to have its own nuclear weapons because it had become more or less detached from the US nuclear umbrella?

In the 1960s it was very much feared that dozens of states might acquire nuclear weapons in the near future, an entirely reasonable supposition given that in the four years before 1968 both France and China had joined the nuclear club.

[LeeStringer]

(original post: 29 Nov 2007 06:38 pm)

Lee, these scans are awesome. Thankyou so much for posting these. We can clearly read the serial for the German Bomb as 2-4579.

[ukwookie]

(original post: 30 Nov 2007 04:26 am)

That number on the bomb looks rather familiar... it's a slightly modified version of the number on the tailfin of the Airfix B-29 bomber kit, also used as numberplates on the SHADO Mobile models in Gerry Anderson's UFO. Airfix kits show up in the detailing of many (all?) of the 2001 models so it's a plausible link.

Knowing the size of the decal it should be possible to work up some dimensions for the original filming model.

Tony

[lunadude]

Adam gave permission to post the assembly instructions, for his recently released German satellite kit.

www.2001-3d-archive.info/filez/Instructions_AJAmodels_German.pdf

Model on!